It lowers the unemployment (perhaps), but we remain between the majority stakanovisti and worse remunerated
The last report Ocse (Organisation for the cooperation and the economic development) has put in part to naked the economic-working situation of the Italy. All of it seems to begin with the just foot: the unemployment, as by now about 10 years to this part, it is decreasing and it will be arranged within the end of the year around 6,3 % (in 1998 it was to 11,4 %). The result nevertheless proves to be influenced, at least in part, by some not structural factors. First of all he has to feel the last train of the program of regularisation of the immigrants; in this case “new get a job” they are not in fact so new because they were already used beforehand in working tasks, it was lacking only l’ "ufficializzazione". In the second place there is certainly taken in consideration the increase of the occupation of the ultrafifty years (davuta to the setting in work of the reforms on the work). At last the continuous progress of the contracts influences to time determined between the youth. That the decrease of the unemployment is not a so positive datum it is confirmed the confirmation by the fact that the Italian occupation percentage remains between the lowest, and his growth seems hen-coop stopping.
The report Ocse however itself evincono other important data on the system - Italy, particularly if compared by other countries. First of all, minding the total number of hours middle annually for each worker, it is possible to see how the Italians work much more other European workers. An Italian in fact manages to work on average 1800 hours, a French 1564 (-236), a German 1436 (-364) and a Dutchman 1391 (-409). We become a beautiful bunch in short.
But the situation gets worse if we compare the middle salaries. An Italian perceives in fact around 31.000 annual dollars, the French of beforehand 38.500, the German 38.000 and the Dutchman quite 44.000. Someone might obbiettare what nevertheless in these countries the cost of the life is higher. Admitted but not granted, the Ocse has thought also of this and has put to comparison the salaries to purchasing power equality. The result? The availability of an Italian is 27.700 dollars, a French 32.900, of a German 34.300 and of a Dutchman 39.300.
Being to these data between the western European countries (I excluded then Hungary, Rep. Elver and Poland) of the Ocse only the Spaniards seem to be worse. But of somewhat. In fact, referring the salary at the cost of the life, an Iberian one is behind only 400 annual dollars. If it adds the fact to itself to any this that the Spain is living an economic boom that does not look must finish in the circle of a few years, itself more to imagine that between not much we will be the tail taillight.
To be conclusive, but not even here in beauty, it goes out of it of the report Ocse that the scissors between the low wages and those high, rather than to press, is widening more and more. But here the whole Europe makes us a company. In short, badly common half joy … or no?
June 21st, 2007 to 8:59 am
But in order that Italian we are always between the most unlucky in Europe?
And I would add, if I considered that we perceive women, to equality of category and task, a salary lower of our colleagues men, this means that we are doubly unlucky!!!!!
June 21st, 2007 to 9:48 am
I would lower the speech on the youth particularly.
In the name of the flexibility of the work the today youth is in conditions absolutely worse than their coetani of only fifteen years ago. In the world of the work they are denied or if it goes quite "watered" rights that their fathers have obtained and that were to the base of a way of working more serene because it was guaranteeing the possibility of maintaining the own family.
Now instead it is an absolutely scandalous contractual typology. I do not know conferred that is the one who for the first year manages to enter into a company if I do not cross a company training. Formation be read, one translate work practically not paid.
The worst thing it is the expectations of the families who have replaced remarkable economic sacrifices to give “a piece from paper” to the children and are repaid in this way.
Contracts of co-ordinated and continuative collaboration that on the paper see the worker how a “free professional” who lends his work perhaps to project without vacation, without overtime works, without sickness and in practice it has instead the schedule of rigid work and is an employee to all the effects.
To Rovato I know one sack of boys in these situations. Graduated or qualified that change 2-3 works in the year and in the place of no work he thinks that to appreciate the knowledge it might be a growth also for the company itself. People who with a diploma is put when centre replies to a telephone of a call with a contract to project, as if to reply to calls was implying goodness knows which type of project.
Except then being dismissed and summarising by the same formalities.
Of youth rovatese in these conditions there it it is great more of what is believed.
I would like to feel opinions also of others, if perhaps he left from personal experiences.
http://angelobergomi.blogspot.com
June 21st, 2007 to 11:33 am
problem #1: few companies look for the quality in the work of the employees and are ready for paying it
problem #2: we distinguish to second of the one who takes a degree in thing GRACES, they not all conferred are equal
June 21st, 2007 to 11:39 am
As far as it regards the degrees, without wanting to diminish that one of anybody the reality changes, not much in any case. I say it at graduated technician's of one of the branches that being to the newspapers (messenger of the evening in head) finds work after 6 months with the degree with salaries with fable, the pluriosannata engineering.
June 21st, 2007 to 12:08 pm
In your case ok, but it are conferred to us that really are not ashamed of their inetitudine and ignorance.
It does not vary only according to what you study but also according to WHERE he studies it … without wanting to offend anybody but how saying. THERE WOULD BE EXAMPLES
June 21st, 2007 to 12:31 pm
In any case the difficulties in the world of the work from the youth are obvious. Degree with praise in the most prestigious university quite hardly saves you from training company, co.co.pro or similar precarious contracts for the first 18-24 months of work. To try to believe.
June 21st, 2007 to 12:53 pm
the perfect rusky, only an example:
because small cities have the university??
what sense has there that exist put like the university of dressing room, or that one of the sannio. but er wide parts also the university of BRESCIA?
I. the RIGHT must be guaranteed no creed to all of studying, but it is also the efforts and the sacrifices that the "youth" as me have forgotten.
better a limited numer of university but of level than the today LICEIFICI.
E - I say it at left side - the beginning of the end it has been the reform BERLINGUER.
June 21st, 2007 to 1:08 pm
I did not want to cite dressing room, urbino and so on. but I see that someone has already done it, but we do not forget that there are in the industrialissima milano realities as the IULM, LIUC, and so on … and a famous university spread in every italia
June 21st, 2007 to 1:28 pm
Hello to all,
first of all good Mattia to find this cue really interesting, at good working average giuovine I confirm a little all that that has been said in the commentaries at angel sally macondo and rusky, but I confirm above all the differences that I notice between mine / ours situation and that one my friends abroad.
They would be necessary to examine besides the training, the doctorate and so on.
Also the marketingarena.it boys discuss similar arguments today: http://ilmarkettaro.blogspot.c..... desso.html
June 21st, 2007 to 1:51 pm
I signal as on my little blog I have posted a message on the argument, bringing back my personal entry in the world of the work.
For whom he wanted to tell his there is at disposal the tool of the commentary to the post-one.
http://angelobergomi.blogspot.com
June 21st, 2007 to 2:09 pm
I am avoided thing would have done the municipality of rovato and his table of juvenile politics or the informagiovani to solve this problem ….
course seems to me a little outside to be solved by the rovato municipality, also because the mayor is Cottinelli, Pious not Father
June 21st, 2007 to 2:15 pm
. as far as it regards the universities in little cities, excused but my experience tells me that the little university of the studies of brescia, with his alone four faculties there is not then like that to diminish:
in my case, of Economy hannno it classifies a great deal of the teachers also to some universities of Milan (the public one, her prone.).
. for the speech of the Ocse, bhè what is it possible to say … Italian we are not the single country that has problems of juvenile occupation, but we have a great problem: the Italian companies, on the contrary we talk about the companies of the zone Of Brescia, they have not between their characteristics the formation of the staff and the exploitation of the employee. only for fiscal reasons looks that the companies have interested when youth assume, but obviously to find some companies that it assumes at least with a contract of apprenticeship, which for certain lines guardianship more than a Co.co.co. or similar stuff, is, in any case, difficult.
I have noticed that they have fewer difficulty to 18-year-old boys find work more "tutelato" without experience and without a done university career. Agreed on this last thing? would you be able to tell me because?
I believe that the motivation is in the saturation of certain places of work, for so those pictures, that is those that the seniors desire to occupy. instead of the graduating students have at least to the beginning ambitions well diverese, and sopratutto in the companies to work, serve more strength I work worker or of low middle level.
In any case, I think that we are put in general very badly, the things in other European countries are put better, not only for a compensation nettà higher than ours, but sopratutto because abroad the youth is seen like the future, at us this does not happen. Example if they it can do in plenty, you look at the political caste, the managerial class. into these fields if you have not at least 50 of years you cannot even think to be able to enter.
The italia is not a free country, it is not a country that is advancing and is not a country that gives me a certainty for the future.
Personally I am very critical as it has been possible evincere, and I show for my future a migration out of ours so friendly nation (friendly in the sense that if you have no friendships, you do not go from any side only with your merits). creed there exist other realities more dynamic than possanno to give to the long one greater positive results, is in economic field than of the own personal soddsfazione of the unwound work.
I am read of persons that they are transferred in also very faraway countries, geographically and culturally speaking, but that they are well, that they have found an own dimension.
I do not want to be part of of the generation of the “thousand Euro”, and single at solution that I see they all look out of the national borders.
If you are not of agreement I would want to feel yours, graces.
June 21st, 2007 to 2:38 pm
For Rusky, all we know that a municipality has not specific competences in matter but the informagiovani allows to come to his little one to knowledge of initiatives that look after the youth and then, potentially, also initiatives in the field of the work (you see timeliness abroad, public administration and so on).
For shinkansen: yours post reflects as it is thought by so many people, too many young men.
It is something that does not go to Italy. The flexibility must not be interpreted as “… I save on the contributions of the workers.”.
The so called shapes of work atypical must not become the bengodi of the companies, or rather salary with hunger, null union guarantees and when you do not serve with me any more so many people it says hallo. Greater flexibility must be translated in more elevated salaries and guarantees which sickness and vacation guaranteed.
In any case, my speech did not want to be to so wide ray, even if it gives me pleasure that someone has picked up the argument.
I was limiting myself simply to the reality of the youth of Rovato that reflects those of so many other young men of the North Italy and that, mine even though I have lived in first person and that know for direct knowledge of the persons. Completely here.
June 21st, 2007 to 3:06 pm
@ Bergomi:
itself perhaps I have gone too much outside I argue, nevertheless it was seeming fair to me to explain what I think about it.
In any case, I am not of Rovato, but of the zone. in fund as you say that the things do not change. we say that mo prays salary is quite fair for my tasks and for my effort, I am an apprentice. nevertheless to know that between any months, as soon as I take a degree, I will not manage to exceed, in any case, the threshold of 1100 Euro, bhè it seems to me a shame. for chronicle duty:
it clerk by an expert in commercial law and a half two years, I lack more or less a ten of months to conclude the apprenticeship.
Then the guilt is not alone to give to the companies that look only for fiscal lightening, there it is to be said that the situation seen by a study of experts in commercial law, is not of the best … many companies have no money and get by to arrive at a positive result.
I incline for a more elastic vision, a little like several shapes that exist now, nevertheless with a modification. in other words the companies pay to the "precarious" employees a higher sum, like note support you, low wages and high flexibility = a great act of buggery.
Sometimes I feel our clients who ask the consultants of the work for the way to save more and more … the blood boils me again inside!!
June 21st, 2007 to 3:07 pm
Hello,
well I endorse what the discussion has shared we see what goes out of it so young to rovato or in the rest of the lombrardia I believe the difficulties that they are more or less them themselves
June 21st, 2007 to 3:23 pm
If I can talk about my experience, personally I consider myself between the lucky persons. I have achieved the degree in April 2001 and after 3 months I have been contacted by the company in whom at present I work. In the last year of university I was working part-time close to a company like clerk. Therefore after the degree I have not even spent one day unemployed.
The contract of initial work was to determinate time (6 months 6 months) but personally I am satisfied with the done choice. And I must say that at the same time I have been very lucky …
I ensure nevertheless that the company has contacted me not why I had knowledge, but why it has obtained to the Data bank of the university to obtain information about my account.
I repeat: it is required a lot of fortune, but to seem mine engagement is necessary also and it is necessary to be ready for accepting with pleasure any type of proposal that is dignified.
(For the chronicle and to demonstrate what the patience and the engagement repay: at the beginning of this year, after 5 years and a half the acceptance, I have been promoted to picture)
June 21st, 2007 to 3:24 pm
The most expensive shinkansen, is certainly pleasant for me to talk with a young man of these arguments, even more if it is living them on his skin. The difficulties of the companies are such to lead them to save on the cost of the work, but the "work" is done by persons, with to house of the families.
The absurd interpretation that 30 has been given by the world of the present work to the law has led to worsen already precarious working situations.
The party of the youth to 1000 Euro in the month is the constant one that lasts at too much time for the graduated youth.
It is (little) companies that are not afraid to be invested on the own staff making it grow professionally and garantedogli, in any case, salaries that do not make desirable that goes away from other sides. The enormous majority sees instead of the staff like a cost and is enough. Here explained 1000 Euro in the month.
I would add to this also the competition that has led the universities to conquer the annual taxes of the members to itself absolutely with publicity on the manifestos, often also of bad taste.
Only two or three years ago the university list of Democratic Students denounced to the print organs a publicity of the University of the studies of Brescia that was reciting the majority or less so:
“. Between 10 years do you want to find yourself to earn 1400 Euro in the month only because you have not tried to join economy / engineering?.”
Arriving at a total lack of respect for the one who instead earns with the own engagement and sweat those numbers, perhaps after twenty years of service with family to the backs to be maintained.
What was showing itself clearly which is reality situzione of the neoconferred ones without creating stupid and frustrating expectations in the one who gets ready to a course of studies of elevated or very raised difficulty as can be an economy or engineering to Brescia!
June 21st, 2007 to 3:49 pm
@ Azil: good for you, boast!!
I get round that one is due we say to satisfy to the beginning, absolutely true and just. but to see that the own situation can in many cases not change, it becomes whipping.
@ Bergomi: I remember that manifesto, remember it very well, perhaps it was of bad taste and they have done it to attract enrolment, also leading in bad light who with the own 1400 Euro in the month carries ahead hut and puppets. nevertheless I see in the means also a purpose perhaps greater, but to interpret. spurring the boys to join to obtain something of better at the work, not only a thin occupation when the hut to alone keep going but also to find an occupazioneche have also a social-national, certain purpose all the professions carry ahead the country, but it is scientific professions that carry a value added to the country. but perhaps this is what I have wanted I will intend that manifesto.
Companies that want to invest in the own human capital as you say that here they are, but we must take in consideration that in the Italian view Companies that have such dimensions at property an advanced company culture are reduced to a least percentage, at least considering some italia zones included that one of Brescia.
It is well-known that the Italian view is a populated sopratutto with companies with less than 10 employees. and in a company with less than 10 employees, the company culture is something that few ones know, to mine in spite of.
June 21st, 2007 to 4:00 pm
in fact. you see how emilio has been reduced faith nevertheless of working poverino. AHAHAHH
in any case, according to me to whom I must redo 4 times the economy examination, finchè the italia persists to want to compete on the production of the slipper with 9.90 € or of the grattuggino in plastic art of 4.50 € we will always take and only it kicks in the teeth … we can save ourselves only with the made in italy and the quality (further further obviously to all that activities of “design“ that have a great added value)
June 21st, 2007 to 4:55 pm
I believe a thing, we create the illusions for her, I doubt that a person chooses the university on the grounds of the velocity with whom then it will manage to find work, the problem is according to me that many graduated young men claim to assume relief positions only entered in the world of the work; perhaps when it were losing of sight the fact that the degree is a culture, teach you the theory do not practice it (at least the maggor shares faculties), I tell for direct experience, only the mess-tin and the engagement lead you in high, not that because you are conferred you are better than a holder of diploma or can do the work better from him!
Then I feel the necessity of doing a specification, without political size, but as between the lines of the commentaries I read references to the law 30 (D.Lgs 276/2003), hold about us to remember that the famous co.co.co have been introduced by the law 196/1997 cd. Reform Treu and the contracts to time determined with the d.lgs 368/2001 for transposition of a community directive.
You excuse but as I always feel much inexactnesses on the argument (not on the site or between the commentaries, but in general) I was holding about it really.
In any case, with all this I do not want to diminish the problems that young we find in the market of the work, I am a laureanda and the future a little bit worries me, but I have not any wish of being here to cry me on!
June 21st, 2007 to 5:08 pm
Innnanzi completely I thank Sally to have directed one's steps to this site; then … I agree with her on the fact who who decides to continue the studies and to deepen nn the fà to them with the hope of finding swift a work that lets him be bought “they it stain” or of nn to do the loan for the house (the eccezzioni exist cmq!
and the hope is the last one to die!) ; I find pathetic to think that 1400 Euro in the month should be little!!! As far as it looks after me stò ending my university run and nn I work interval and this has let me understand that the university supplies tools to face the working world with one more march at mental level: he helps to be able to satisfy it and to widen the gamma of possible solutions on the grounds of the problems that can always be met in the work. Every stà to our wish of leading to it in game, without lamenting us if for first years we are amiably exploited 5/6! I co-operate 3 years with a company and nn have not even a contract to project to that you testify!!!
Thinking of the experience of my parents … I say only: other times! And perhaps another (great) wish of be giving to do to guarantee a future to itself without dreaming obbligatoriamente of being able to allow to itself a pair of Prada, Hogan, Gucci … Only with the wish of doing better and of be improving for themselves!
What do you think about it?! Are we exaggerating Nn?!
June 21st, 2007 to 5:08 pm
I throw a question:
quanit of you have they had the serious intention, or are thinking to leave the italia to work and perhaps to find an own solution of the problem?
June 21st, 2007 to 5:15 pm
I!! if every và since it has to I seize myself 3 months of pause October or January of the prox year and go to NY … certainly for the first times, I date my not much flowing English, to learn like waitress in an Italian restaurant and. then nn it is never possible to know what will book the future for you!
June 21st, 2007 to 5:18 pm
ALT ALT ALT … is daccordo what it should to satisfy and what it is not possible to claim the first years, but I have seen of recent one that the same work to milano-brescia or dublino almost 1000 change € in busa salary that, ok the culture, ok more march but an almost doubled salary means.
I would not have problems to go away from here for work, but I do not believe the italia be able to solve the problem when there let go the one who wants to go and when others were taking place … in the east Europe, where us to intend is not a big holiday every evening, for the own university students they us hope quite a lot … and there will be a motive …
Creed we are all daccordo on the fact that the flexibility serves in the world of the work but personally conferred on 700 € in the month (fulltime) I would not work, I am rather sure of managing to find a building enterprise that pays to me of the majority … ….
June 21st, 2007 to 5:21 pm
I sincerely no, I adore the Italy, with his positive and negative sides and do not believe that to escape abroad is the solution, when one finds us in front of an obstacle one tries to knock it down and not of avoiding it; what I have always proposed is that of bottom flies but with serenity, of going up with calm, do not matter if they will love us to me 10 years to have a salary that allows to me some "luxury" more, over food and flat, but if my conscience is to place, I do not must pound the feet to anybody or other, am glad so!
Idealist? probable!!!!!
June 21st, 2007 to 5:23 pm
@GeI:
excuse me so much, I find a specification to be done on what you say. at least as far as it looks after me do not study from there work for the Gucci, hogan it to feel myself beautiful with stain. then 1400 Euro it in the month they are not little, but so many people are not even (among other things the commentary of 1400 was talking about an advertising manifesto of a worker not conferred after 10 years of university), if he should consider that between loan / rent - services - food - transport - motor vehicle goes out of the pocket an equal number if not superior to that one.
Then our parents, apology but those are other times, alas.: (
On the fact that for the first years the companies exploit you, the most just to do mess-tin, the most just to understand that the work is not the study and the most just to understand that the companies appreciate very much the working experience. but here it is said of a situation that it tightens to the ridiculous one. that very much is the articles of several newspapers that say of 30/35enni that still now they live with thousand Euro in the month.
The ocse is not an institute cippa tip-cat, the same European organ says that our purchase power is low, you have felt it all the increase of the prices. then 1400 Euro are goodness knows only to my way of thinking.
In any case, I itself, perhaps I will be in the minority, but as far as it looks after me, when I faced the theme of the university choice, I have thought also in very practical way of what could be quite spendable on the market of the work, are national which foreign countries.
I would have liked to do sociology, but perhaps it was not the most effective choice to lead to house the loaf. (with all the respect for the one who does sociology or it has done sociology … and then it can be that I have taken a super corner:D)
June 21st, 2007 to 5:35 pm
A specification for shinkanses looks that I was referring with the velocity to find work, there is according to me one thin difference, it is works that to spendibilità equality on the market of the work, let find work more quickly! I was referring exclusively with the velocity about whom they were speaking some preceding commentaries …
In any case, rusky I and let's have different ideas to you, I prefer to do the work that I like, also at 700 Euro, drawing the strap each month that to lead to house 300 Euro, moreover, doing a work that I do not like (obviously always having at disposal this choice, because I understand perfectly that for many people the choice is not even presented!!)
probably I will be one idealist!!!
June 21st, 2007 to 5:36 pm
@shinkanses:
Think what I wanted to make the school from the little theatre to milano or the sivio fats … Suffered of theatre at such a point that son dictates me … with all that that happens in the world … perhaps is better if I create a cushion for me … that if one day was happening to me of must fall … at least nn I become so badly!!! and I do jurisprudence
Returning on the compensation for 1400 Euro, nn is my case (and therefore I thank my parents or someone more in high that has let me be born in my family) but I would want to remember us and nn I do the moralist, who there are whole families who manage to live with 1400 Euro … and nn are composed by 3 persons!!! Therefore when I say, being ironic, but not even too much, on the fact that someone buys the Prada for himself and so on., I refer to those persons who nn are able to do economy and, pass the term to me, they squander!
June 21st, 2007 to 5:39 pm
I boast rusky! the problem is the Italy, then it is necessary to solve the problem, not to look for loopholes sending abroad the one who has a degree. Some solutions here are. I give an example: the industries ask for flexibility for “it strikes of work” or similar saying that they cannot assume one to indeterminate time if they have not the certitude that this will serve with him we say at least 8-9 months the year, otherwise for them it would be economically too expensive. Well, let's give him then flexibility with contracts that nevertheless do not go down under 15 days (I have worked for the adecco and there have made me sign 5 week contracts anzichè a monthly one … that so if I was doing something of unpleasant one to their third week were finding some other for the last two), with exception of no one (! very little) it works. And then, we force the companies to pay gradatamente of the majority (it is clean than to the gross one, which at least the pensions go up) according to all that is short the contract. It seems rather fair to me. At all I ask for 36 week hours as in francia!
June 21st, 2007 to 5:44 pm
I have always said what the problem of Italian us is that if they give us a hand we seize each other the arm! Traduco:gli flexibility tools serve me if it abuses it too much, other European countries are avvantaggati at being able to use in intelligent way such tools (you see the part time in holland)!
June 21st, 2007 to 5:46 pm
expensive GEi, if one has it 1400 euri and 2 children for example with a loan or the rent (and perhaps also the instalments of the machine that is used for him absolutely to go earning that damned 1400 euri), once what has utilizzatoi money to pay for everything this and to go doing the expense to the supermarket, can enter also into the prada businesses … much with what remains to him offers the coffee to max to the shop assistant!