THE COUNTERCLAIM HAS ARRIVED AT THE TAR
Someone had imagined it and if they were waiting for it, others instead had not it absolutely estimated one. Fact is that, after the resort presented in last weeks to the Tar of Brescia at Rovato of the Freedom in the person in the first place of his candidate mayor Alexander Conter, followed by Manenti and Gussago, hour there is the turn of the Municipality, represented by the mayor for tempore Andrew Cottinelli, to be presented before the administrative court to make being worth the own reasons.
The counterclaim of Rovato Civica is divided substantially in two parts: in the first one there is tried to get off the probatory installation maintained by the list of Conter, in the second one instead some presumed errors go ahead in the attribution of the vows, which would have been taken away from the list of the retiring mayor.
In specific Rovato Civica, for means of the lawyer Rovetta, 5 and 8 would seem to aim to make shaking the hypothesis of the wrong unwinding of the electoral operations particularly in the chairs.
In this last second chair all that detachable rovatese would not have missed the card voted erroneously by a civic private citizen, as instead hypothesised in the resort of Rovato of the Freedom. The counterclaim is focused principally on the fact the card of the citizen rovatese was indicating expressly the chair 8 like chair of belonging of the same thing, and that the card once put in the urn, would not have more been identifiable, and then tantomeno sottraibile the urn itself; then, for these reasons, the situation hypothesised in the first resort would be, to said about the list of the toy train, groundless.
In the chair 5 instead, where had Rovato of the Freedom theorised the lack of 17 cards on the ballot, the resort of Rovato Civica asserts that 2 numerical data (921 and 904) are not concerning to the same cards and then they are not between them comparable, less they should still for strength to turn out to be identical to punishment of the invalidity of the electoral operations. While in fact 921 cards would be those signed by the scrutineers, the 904 would be those validate of the President of chair mediated the apposition of the stamp. 17 cards then would be completely irrelevant (if they were not a note validate) as far as it regards the total reckoning of the cards.
The lawyer Rovetta has tried to make coming to the second part of the counterclaim besides to the light presumed errors of attribution of the vows, which would have involved a reduction in the complex of the preferences obtained by the Civic one. Between so many people, only to give some examples, the counterclaim individualises as erroneee some declarations of “null card” of the chair 3 (where, in absence of any crocesegno on three symbols of the lists, in the space used as the expression of the personal preference of the list Rovato Civica it was the inscription “Si“) and of the chair 10 (where, as well as the cross on the symbol of Rovato Civica and to the preference expressed for Vaccarezza in the correct space, the same preference a second time has been repeated to the outside of the field of writing).
To know, in any case, how the Lombard administrative magistrates will value all this matter it will be necessary to wait up to November 22, day of the first audience fixed by the same Tar of Brescia.
July 17th, 2007 to 12:38 pm
I me am never a permission of intervening in the debate because I was not considering it opportune, I still date that my electoral chair is cited openly want to specify that:
1 The counting activities in the chair have unwound with harmony, impartiality and respect of several lists;
2 the decisions taken during the counting have been openly illustrated and you justify and nobody of the present ones has objected;
3 there you have no been protests from the representatives of list who have appreciated the work unwound by all the components of the chair;
5 as far as it regards the card not brought back at all the vow of Vaccarezza, it have been colleggialmente declared nothing and the decision has been accepted also by the representative of List of Rovato Civica, because it was bringing back the name of the candidate to characters cubitali on the whole blue field to the outside of the field of writing. If it is truth that is respected and interpreted the will of the vow it is also truth that there goes tutelato the beginning of riconoscibilità of the vow itself.
6 in the end I allow myself to underline that everything this one arguing is rather disrespectful towards the one who, like the undersigned, has covered this list with passion, professionalism and impartiality and also disrespectfully towards several list representatives. Do you excuse but all of us that were to the chairs that we us were to do that day?
Thank you.
July 17th, 2007 to 12:47 pm
I allow myself instead of I say that “arguing“ about whom he speaks her has been opened by the one who has not accepted the verdict of the elections and after 3 months of calumnies it has prolonged this behaviour also later.
I repeat, there is no very much to argue: now the court has in hand all the necessary contributions to decide and, I repeat it, it would not want be the cloths of the one who has given testimonies for the initial resort that in case you judge insubstantial they would lead to the inquisition for false testimony.
I have verified the relieved speech also to the chair in whom I was a list representative also. No card has been an object of alight protest. But he looks at case also this chair appears in the initial resort of Rovato of the Freedom.
Do her.
angelobergomi.blogspot.com
July 17th, 2007 to 12:52 pm
My era only a specification ….tutto here.
Thank you.
July 17th, 2007 to 2:10 pm
A thing that nobody has still remembered. At this blog it is of common domination that one of the drafters of the resort of Rovato of the Freedom is the doctor Gussago.
Personally I think that instead of doing “the paladin of the justice” after Sunday of the vow was giving for sure the result to the chairs in favour of Rovato of the Freedom, it would be necessary to ask how, after 10 years of communal advisor from 2002 to 70 of 2007 has managed to pass from 104 preferences, unwinding a profession that returns it between the most visible.
He and others should become an examination: but of conscience, nevertheless.
July 17th, 2007 to 2:23 pm
I ask what against resort of Rovato Civica is read in this key:
and we supply an answer: the judge will say.
the electoral law lets to any citizen signal within 30 days with the election circumstantial facts and cards whose attribution would not be correct.
As far as it regards the circumstantial facts RDL it highlights 2 episodes (to seggio5 and
As far as it regards cards attributed in incorrect way it is good to remember that the electoral law asks the scrutineers of assigning the vows where the will of the elector is clear and where the mark is not recognizable.
It happens that a type of vow is given to a chair for good and to an other, with other scrutineers, it is cancelled.
This situation falls in equal parts on all the lists inside that chair, then this agreement between the list representatives does not obtain a modification of the electoral result.
In the resort RDL it highlights 9 cards attributed in incorrect way to them disfavour, but he does not say that there are as many of them for Rovato Civica (I get round if it is thought that they want to have some chances of overturning the electoral, incorrect result if it is thought that I am the fruit of the work of the representatives of list).
Well the same law elttorale that lets within 30 days signal "wrong" cards lets within the following ones “15 ″ to the counterpart of signalling the own "wrong" cards.
Against resort of Rovato Civica it is read in this key.
No polemic attitude.
Andrew Cottinelli
July 17th, 2007 to 2:40 pm
quiet mr. sindek … had understood himself! and then it is known that in these gabole the lawyers in general here wallow, on the one hand to other one. now we must wait only for the Tar.e perhaps not to do polemics. it would be beautiful …
July 17th, 2007 to 6:16 pm
I must say that I do not understand the eccesiva trend of no one to dramatize the question it seems very clear to me and normata the law.
Rovato of the freedom, seen the scarce difference, thinks that there have been irregoralità in the unwinding of the electoral procedures and therefore he has presented recurred to the TAR that it has provided to fix the date of the audience and has notified of all the interested parties the acts regarded the resort itself, Rovato Civica has provided to carry his counterdeductions in the temini foreseen by the law
It seems completely regular to me and the judges in serenity decideronno.
That presidents of chair hurry to be proclaimed innocent it seems very curious to me it would be as chidere to the host if the wine is good.
We let do to the justice his course and at the end we will accept the verdict it.
Gian Franco Tomasoni
July 17th, 2007 to 9:20 pm
expensive Gian Franco,
perhaps there are your great faculties taumaturgiche that risk transforming the wine into vinegar, like so many other things which you have approached.
to defend the own conduct, above all when this has been unwound by the highest seriousness and professionalism, is so legitimate as the resort expressed by RDL.
curious, I find to be your ergersi way with so much timeliness to judge “$$$“, of whom with honesty it defends his serious work.
pride and rectitude are not articles that are between the shelves of the supermarket.
perhaps too much taken from the great initiative of expelling Vittore Martinelli from F.I., (obviously signed by others and not by you) that day that we were in seat to milano, you have not noticed what exposed to the wall of the foyer, with so many other images, it was also that one of Jan Palach, young Czechoslovak martyr sacrificed for the freedom of his country against the soviet oppressor in by now faraway 1969, after the most famous Spring of praga of 68.
this example, shared it anchors today huge youth of any array, in honour of own and other's dignity, like also the example of that young student who to naked hands was facing the Chinese imperialistic tanks in square Tien an Men to pechino.
I do not know if you will find the time to make a little reflexion to everything this one, but remember you that not all the men of this world are ready for being and for living at lackey's.
cordially ettore maranesi
July 18th, 2007 to 6:20 am
Mr. Tomasoni is sorry towards me but here it is not a question of "dramatizing" in infantile way. You for simple “logical deduction” and without proofs that the fact has been committed you have accused two Presidents of “of having stolen cards”.
You have left from real data, but then only arguing you have presented a very heavy fact as a single possible solution like stealing cards in an electoral vow.
Also for respect of the persons, if before throwing these defamatory accusations you were doing two informal calls perhaps you had a version different from that one of you deduced and if only you understood that your hypothesis on as the facts had gone was not the possible single one.
Then you could not believe us also and go on with this type of resort and be entrusted to the interpretation of the judges, but two calls were not costing very much.
For whom, since he loves Ettore Maranesi repeats, not “it lives on bread and politics” but a family has a work, dignity, to defend to feel in the own country to be defined freely as a thief is not the most beautiful. and to be given vent on a blog is only a bitter consolation.
July 18th, 2007 to 8:51 am
I have the impression that here is a people more interested to berciare one some supposed (!) metaphysical wisdom rather than people ready for commenting on news.
But the world is beautiful because I vary.
July 18th, 2007 to 9:36 am
I am disconcerted expensive Mr. Tomasoni by his words that I bring back: "… Rovato of the freedom, seen the scarce difference, thinks that there have been irregoralità in the unwinding of the electoral procedures …”
What? since the difference was least then you think that there they were sure??!!
I see what much has learnt well at his ex-president's of the advice that interviewed to the flight while it was getting on a blue car on the possibilities of overturning the electoral result to the politics of 2006 he said to exact question:
“Can the result, Rider, according to her change?”
And he answered: "He MUST CHANGE”.
To think that certainly there have been irregularities between there ltro with criminal size only because the discarding between two lists has been scarce demonstrates a big Freudian slip as a house.
As I think that however the court has now all the elements to decide beyond what she says, I say to let it work only quietly.
In the meantime an addition and completely legitimised they are called a communal advice to unwind in ripe way their list.
Greetings.
Angelo Bergomi.
July 18th, 2007 to 10:24 am
I would like to make clear once for all a second concept me imported, I think that the TAR does not fix the date of an audience without beforehand verifying at least the supportability of the cited facts, this does not mean that who does the quotation is right, but ividentemente it has led concrete facts to support of his theses inducing the court to verify the question.
Then to our days you the parts are not guilty of anything the court felt and verified the acts dirimerà the question.
At another side it is the legitimate inhalation of the components of Rovato of the Freedom of having clearness.
Of course, if the difference had been different here it would not have been necessary of any court but when seven vows had been of suns I hope that you gather with me who it was and a further widening is dutiful towards our electors.
I would pray the Mr. Bergomi to stop making it notes or interpretations of the thought of others even if he being a Stalin's nipotino has lost the hair but not the vice.
For the sig certain Buizza the politics for me is a passion in contrast to others that have grounds and varied propities to be defended, it is not his case, and his man's dignity is not at me absolutely setting in discussion.
A cordial greeting to all
July 18th, 2007 to 10:35 am
I see instead of what the notes give trouble when they are circumstantial well benino as evidently I have done.
And the words that I have brought back she has pronounced expensive Mr. Tomasoni to her. The readers draw the due conclusions it.
I see that as before the elections the tones towards the adversaries have been those to whom the rovatesi had got used, prescriptions and risotto apart again.
But face also as it believes, Mr. Tomasoni.
The undersigned and all the colleagues of the majority answer to the citizens, anyone to her that he is not even a citizen rovatese.
And the respect that I have towards the citizens leads me to give better than me during communal advice and meetings of commissions consigliari, first of all attending them and giving my contribution.
In the respect of ALL the citizens, also and above all of those who openly declare of not having you preferenziato.
If instead of her it finds more opportune to draw outside still the history about the communist he eats children do also. I do not look after it, go for my road surely that the judgement that interests me is not certainly his.
Without grudge.
Greetings.
July 18th, 2007 to 12:57 pm
But which supportability of the cited facts! The Tar fixes the first audience without not even to look at her at certain things! The evaluation of the facts is an evaluation in the merit, and such an evaluation becomes alone inside the process. It is obvious that if there has no still been first audience the process has not begun. We would lack only on what a judge decides, without not even to have opened the process, the supportability of the adduced facts.
July 18th, 2007 to 1:35 pm
Apppperò that tranvata!!!
July 18th, 2007 to 2:29 pm
goodness knows that it happens if the tar of Brescia rejects the RDL resort, how does it seem possible and probable? perhaps they will say that those of Tar di Bresciasono toghe red
but there remains the fact that if it was rejecting them saying that they do not exist it justifies to enter into the merit of the facts cited in the resort a problem of not a little account would open for the one who has testified irregular behaviours to the chair
each one of these witnesses can be cited for defamation worsened by all the components of the chair that can them ask the compensation for also the civil seat
considered by this perspective the unsuccessful signature of Tuscans and of the league under the resort it makes understanding that someone has consulted legal a few and has decided with good sense, unless a recreation is considered the exponents' unsuccessful signature of the league under the resort
the League of Rovato will be able to have mmolti defects but it demonstrates in this case more respect and attention of others that also are proclaimed paladina of the freedom (conditioned?)
July 18th, 2007 to 4:59 pm
You do not contradict the avv. leotommy: he is the best also in affairs own only of persons with the toga or in any case very much prepared as to … … ”I denounce all to You”!!!!!!!!
A greeting with the company of the ice cream …
July 19th, 2007 to 8:29 am
I would want to remember to all what today is a July 19 and there are 15 years with the massacre of Road of Amelio in whom judge Paolo Borsellino was killed together with 5 agents of the escort:
Emanuela Loi (first woman of the fallen Police of state in service), Agostino Catalano, Vincenzo Li Muli, Walter Eddie Cosina and Claudio Traina. The survived single one was Antonino Vullo.
A little personal memory on my blog.
http://angelobergomi.blogspot.com
July 19th, 2007 to 10:13 am
oh now we have also the pettifogger tomasoni, those of fi can do everything, like their arcore master.
we see a little some concepts expressed by the new guide:
1) if the tar has fixed then audience., there is not like that stop the administrative process sees the procedure to itself iguardante;
2) if the difference is scarce then here irregularities are. ah, on what base?
Certainly if the resort will be thrown again there will be used to make a din against the red toghe and the contrary judicial power to the libertàdifesa you give calieri blue, the exclusive holders.
July 19th, 2007 to 10:28 am
Which is the connection between the irregularities and seven vows?
If the vows had been seventy would the irregularities have been the same thing?
The idea that I am becoming is that the decision of the resort has not been taken by the irregularities, which seem find again to me appended for the resort, but only to see if manages to lead to house something itself, without naturally looking in face at anybody.
The phrase of the friend Tomasoni really is not much disturbing, on this I must give unfortunately reason to Bergomi.
the phrase is this: "Rovato of the freedom, seen the scarce difference, thinks that there have been irregoralità in the unwinding of the electoral procedures” that lets think that if the difference should not be scarce here they would not have been irrgolarità.
July 19th, 2007 to 1:15 pm
@ free gian tomasoni
I do not understand the connection between your political passion, that is well you maintain firmly, since much has been able to give you without never being put yourself in game in first person (for the amur of the gnoc the basgia knows leca also), and others that as rightly you say, they defend their properties acquired with personal sacrifices or of more generations.
the argumentation of the Mr. bergomi, that he is a nephew exclusively his grandfathers and his uncles and ambassador of his ideas and his electors, seems quite circumstantial to me in contrast to your premature sentences devoid to our days of each foundation.
I know well that you do not need suggestions, particularly aside mine, but creed has arrived at the moment also for you of that not received right listen of the majority to your electorate without arrogarsi of making choices to all that despotic, perhaps also with the courage of signing them.
good day
July 19th, 2007 to 1:38 pm
The fixation of the audience is an automatic act that it achieves to the presentation of a resort in the estimated terms.
The goodness or less than the resort it will be valued only to the November audience. To say that the resort shows concrete arguments and then the court wants to verify the question and therefore it has fixed audience, it is a foolishness. The audience has been fixed because the resort has been presented on time, purpose.
July 19th, 2007 to 1:41 pm
Maranesi tells Tomasoni:
“I do not understand the connection between your political passion, that is well you maintain firmly, since much has been able to give you without never being put yourself in game in first person.”
I allow myself to contradict. The good provincial advisor has put himself in game in 2004 to provincial I fix. But at all in "his" natural college of Rovato-Cazzago-Paderno-Passirano.
It was put in game in the "sure" college of Desenzano. But how, with the CDL that in this college pecks itself historically 65 % has not it trusted?
Does it enjoy so so many estimate from his fellow villagers?
July 19th, 2007 to 1:48 pm
But who is the lawyer to whom there has applied the one who says that if the audience has been fixed in November 22 it is implicitly an admission “… at least of the supportability of the cited facts”? Paolino Paperino?
I hope for RDL that there are not the same thing that follows their resort.
July 19th, 2007 to 1:57 pm
Mister Tomasoni says:
— Of course, if the difference had been different here it would not have been necessary of any court but when seven vows had been of suns I hope that you gather with me who it was and a further widening is dutiful towards our electors—
Here demonstrated that there has no been any irregularity, in fact nobody has had nothing to say, and that instead of the single motive of the resort there are few discarding vows. And, in any case, a further widening would have been useful if here irregularities had been not so so much to do.
I apply to those that know how things work ste: cannot go to the Tar the messages of GFT who says that they have done the resort only for few vows and not for the irregularities that at least everything finishes?
July 19th, 2007 to 7:29 pm
there remains a question not a short time ago to whom nobody seems a wish to answer
because nobody of the League has signed the resort?
July 19th, 2007 to 7:35 pm
I do not believe sensible or credible the version dates of a resort shared by all: if really the resort ditch been shared by all since it has loved to itself to make believing racocntando that had discussed the secretariats it of all the parties, is not easy to explain in order that as well as that one of Conter there should be that one of Gussago, also he of Strength Italy, and of Roberto Manenti, while all the other parties have not signed (perhaps for fear of facing further expenses? perhaps because it has been clear that the battle had been lost? or perhaps because convinced that the motivations have been built thinking of a resort that should take the returned one accounts away inside the allies?
it is remembered that if the victory has hundred fathers, the defeat is always orfana
July 20th, 2007 to 12:40 pm
but be enough with these dietronerie! otherwise between a little bit one tells that as for example. Red he has not signed then it was not informed, or what if only to es Pasinetti was always contrary, or it anchors worse.
And then, because so much fury on the League? expensive giancarlo, does not look to me much has broken so on An and Udc.
July 20th, 2007 to 6:17 pm
no fury towards the League, which in my opinion more serene a lot and responsible person has behaved in way ddei his allies and which in contrast to An has not penetrated into prone declarations to whom Cottinelli has lost the challenge ocn (in my opinion the defeat was in seven more vows but thousand vows to the Cottinelli coalition and 1600 in less to qulle of Conter)
UDC has not spoken and I do not see how it is possible to criticise a compound attitude that takes note of a defeat thinking the future
as for Pasinetti I believe really that avrenne never signed a ricosro of the presented type, and with him others who to the masismo would have signed a request of riconteggio without offending the one who had worked on the chairs
for the dietroneria, which in Italian is written dietrologia, I go back to the teachings of my grandfather, countryman big shoes thin brain, which was supporting the timeliness of minding the past to understand the future
July 22nd, 2007 to 5:19 pm
safe to all I think that the resort would have been licit if nn had been followed by it by the usual illations. for qunto there regards the one who signs the resorts and who nn signs them nn is necessary to do confusion between the one who has done him for contrariety and who for cunning, but nn and’ difficult to distinguish them.
July 22nd, 2007 to 10:18 pm
Conter wins and Cottinelli loses!
this one says the sounding about the one who will be the mayor of Rovato (perhaps it is a prophecy for 2012)
change the sounding or send it to the Tar